Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
“Those who have lived by the aid of logos are Christian even if they were adjudged atheists—such as Socrates and Heraclitus and their like among the Greeks, and among the Barbarians, Abraham…and Elijah” --Justin Martyr, Apology.
When Justin talked about the logos he was not only talking about word, speech, or reason but he was primarily talking about the first born of God, the Spirit and the Power from God. Of, course this conception of the logos is Platonic but it jived with what I have been convinced long ago—that God is revealed everywhere. I am now into the Philosophy of Man, a required subject for my course. Although I consider myself better read than my instructor (who is younger than me) in this area, but my instructor’s seatwork on the Asian sages Confucius, Lao Tzu, and the Buddha and all the transcendental goals of their philosophies made me realize another area of the quest for God that we Christians (sometimes) considered inutile, futile and sometimes even absurd—the search for God sans the Bible.
Put simply for us Christians, Christianity is all about God trying to communicate to humanity for their salvation. It is God trying to let himself be understood by humanity through prophets, through priest, through the law and the culmination of this “communicating” is through the Christ—where in God made God manifest in the flesh. It is unthinkable for most Christians to think about the search for God without this seeking of God through Christ as presented by biblical revelation. I think this is right but not the whole truth.
I am a firm believer of natural revelation, for I believe that without this innate knowledge and desire of humanity to reach out and go beyond his humanity, Biblical revelation would never be possible. This is not to deny God but to affirm God for what is that desire to transcend if there’s nothing to transcend to?
I was thinking how must it felt for the Buddha to quest for God (or transcendence) (although Buddhist are atheistic there is still that search…I don’t know but it still about God) through meditation and in the absence of revelation, or Confucius, or Lao Tzu, how must it felt to search for the truth with nothing to based it on but on what is at their disposal—their reflections and enlightenment. How confounding the challenge for their search must have been, and what is not surprising is how parallel some of the result of these searches (sans ethnocentrism) is with the teachings of Christ!
Doesn’t these awkward, poor and incoherent grasping of reality suggests a pre-existing natural revelation? Nay, even a foundational revelation to the foundational revelation of biblical revelation?
This humanity trying to explain, to seek, to go beyond, to grasp at realities beyond this reality, this grasping, happening and developing simultaneously in different cultures, land and era. It must also tell something about God, something for God, something good about God, something that is revealed or graspable about God, or something that man has been trying to do and that God has granted to humanity—different but not opposing revelations. The essence determines the form, the searchers grasps the form of the essence. The form is determined by the form of the searchers. God is essence and encompasses form.
No, it would be unthinkable for some Christians to consider these “pagan Christians” search and efforts to understand God and the transcendent reality that God is as a valid search for God. But sometimes there’s that nagging question that says otherwise for I believe that persons seeking God unaided by biblical revelation have more faith than persons who believes that they are being seek by God through biblical revelation and finds faith. Yes, I believe that it takes more faith to look for God in the absence of biblical revelation and salvation is about faith.
It is time we move away from the notion that Christianity is the center of the religious universe “from the Ptolemaic to the Copernican” view that God is the sun and all other religion orbit around Him. God reveals himself through sensitive and responsive people and this revelation gave rise to different religions.
--John Hicks
I envy people who accept their faith (or religion) as it is without any question, without any confusion. But I’m not that, for I believe that faith is living with these questions and living, surviving, that for me is faith. Faith unchallenged is not faith but superstition and shamanism (memorize this, memorize that, follow it to the letter, thou shalt not challenge this or that, truth is in the letters…).
This is a strange way to look for truths about God. Not advisable, not advisable, not advisable. I am not challenging the Bible nor do I doubt that Christ is the savior, but there is this nagging restlessness in me that cannot believe that salvation is exclusive to a religion, to a denomination, to a sect, sometimes to an individual because if that is salvation I’d rather be damned.
I remember a Baptist theology teacher telling his class, “I cannot blame the Catholics for Baptizing children…” yes, we cannot blame them.
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
“Those who have lived by the aid of logos are Christian even if they were adjudged atheists—such as Socrates and Heraclitus and their like among the Greeks, and among the Barbarians, Abraham…and Elijah” --Justin Martyr, Apology.
When Justin talked about the logos he was not only talking about word, speech, or reason but he was primarily talking about the first born of God, the Spirit and the Power from God. Of, course this conception of the logos is Platonic but it jived with what I have been convinced long ago—that God is revealed everywhere. I am now into the Philosophy of Man, a required subject for my course. Although I consider myself better read than my instructor (who is younger than me) in this area, but my instructor’s seatwork on the Asian sages Confucius, Lao Tzu, and the Buddha and all the transcendental goals of their philosophies made me realize another area of the quest for God that we Christians (sometimes) considered inutile, futile and sometimes even absurd—the search for God sans the Bible.
Put simply for us Christians, Christianity is all about God trying to communicate to humanity for their salvation. It is God trying to let himself be understood by humanity through prophets, through priest, through the law and the culmination of this “communicating” is through the Christ—where in God made God manifest in the flesh. It is unthinkable for most Christians to think about the search for God without this seeking of God through Christ as presented by biblical revelation. I think this is right but not the whole truth.
I am a firm believer of natural revelation, for I believe that without this innate knowledge and desire of humanity to reach out and go beyond his humanity, Biblical revelation would never be possible. This is not to deny God but to affirm God for what is that desire to transcend if there’s nothing to transcend to?
I was thinking how must it felt for the Buddha to quest for God (or transcendence) (although Buddhist are atheistic there is still that search…I don’t know but it still about God) through meditation and in the absence of revelation, or Confucius, or Lao Tzu, how must it felt to search for the truth with nothing to based it on but on what is at their disposal—their reflections and enlightenment. How confounding the challenge for their search must have been, and what is not surprising is how parallel some of the result of these searches (sans ethnocentrism) is with the teachings of Christ!
Doesn’t these awkward, poor and incoherent grasping of reality suggests a pre-existing natural revelation? Nay, even a foundational revelation to the foundational revelation of biblical revelation?
This humanity trying to explain, to seek, to go beyond, to grasp at realities beyond this reality, this grasping, happening and developing simultaneously in different cultures, land and era. It must also tell something about God, something for God, something good about God, something that is revealed or graspable about God, or something that man has been trying to do and that God has granted to humanity—different but not opposing revelations. The essence determines the form, the searchers grasps the form of the essence. The form is determined by the form of the searchers. God is essence and encompasses form.
No, it would be unthinkable for some Christians to consider these “pagan Christians” search and efforts to understand God and the transcendent reality that God is as a valid search for God. But sometimes there’s that nagging question that says otherwise for I believe that persons seeking God unaided by biblical revelation have more faith than persons who believes that they are being seek by God through biblical revelation and finds faith. Yes, I believe that it takes more faith to look for God in the absence of biblical revelation and salvation is about faith.
It is time we move away from the notion that Christianity is the center of the religious universe “from the Ptolemaic to the Copernican” view that God is the sun and all other religion orbit around Him. God reveals himself through sensitive and responsive people and this revelation gave rise to different religions.
--John Hicks
I envy people who accept their faith (or religion) as it is without any question, without any confusion. But I’m not that, for I believe that faith is living with these questions and living, surviving, that for me is faith. Faith unchallenged is not faith but superstition and shamanism (memorize this, memorize that, follow it to the letter, thou shalt not challenge this or that, truth is in the letters…).
This is a strange way to look for truths about God. Not advisable, not advisable, not advisable. I am not challenging the Bible nor do I doubt that Christ is the savior, but there is this nagging restlessness in me that cannot believe that salvation is exclusive to a religion, to a denomination, to a sect, sometimes to an individual because if that is salvation I’d rather be damned.
I remember a Baptist theology teacher telling his class, “I cannot blame the Catholics for Baptizing children…” yes, we cannot blame them.
2 comments:
But I’m not that, for I believe that faith is living with these questions and living, surviving, that for me is faith. Faith unchallenged is not faith but superstition and shamanism.
I agree here... just a simple acceptance of what others are saying or teaching is not faith. The sad truth is people think that praying a sinner's prayer make them saves.
I would encourage people who really wants to believe in God to question their faith... question the Scripture, have their own analysis of what they are learning. Don't absorb what the pastors are saying as if they are absolute because they are not and worst they may be very wrong though they look right.
My favorite theologian Moltmann would say that Christian faith in God is not naive basic trust. It is unfaith that has been overcome.
So, true.
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